9 Responses to Libertarian, Conservative — Trump

  1. 10 Cents10 Cents says:
    5 Oct 2017 at 20:27

    I read it and thought it was refreshing in its honesty. I disagree with it religiously.

    There is a circular logic to it. I can’t believe in “Santa Claus” because God doesn’t act like Santa Claus.

    I think one should always go with what works. I just don’t know if society can survive someone of the revolutions that have happened. I see where in the micro it might not be so bad but in the macro it doesn’t seem good. Sex for other than procreation is maybe not so bad as long as there is some procreation going on. If this “good” undercuts the stability of the family, I don’t know how society survives.

    Of course anyone can have their own morality but a society need a shared morality in the same way they need shared rules of the road to drive safely. One person deciding they are going to make the “One-way Street” go the other way causes problems.

    Feel free to poke holes in my opinions.

  2. John Walker says:
    6 Oct 2017 at 09:03

    >> There is a circular logic to it. I can’t believe in “Santa Claus” because God doesn’t act like Santa Claus.

    My interpretation of what he was saying is that just as he’d rejected Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny as implausible due to lack of evidence, he similarly rejected the idea of a God who interacted on an individual level with people due to similar lack of evidence. He acknowledges that others, including his friend and frequent contributor to The Libertarian Enterprise, J. Neil Schulman (see his letter:

    http://ncc-1776.org/tle2017/tle942-20171001-01.html#letter06

    ), have had personal experiences which have changed their lives and convinced them of the existence of a supreme being. L. Neil (as opposed to J. Neil) is simply saying he hasn’t. If there’s no phenomenon for which you need to invoke the supernatural to explain, it’s only natural to conclude that it doesn’t exist or, of it does, it doesn’t make any difference in our lives.

    >> Of course anyone can have their own morality but a society need a shared morality in the same way they need shared rules of the road to drive safely. One person deciding they are going to make the “One-way Street” go the other way causes problems.

    The funny thing is that most people, left to their own devices, will pretty much settle on roughly the same morality even without having it handed down by a supposed deity. The evidence for this is that most human societies more or less agree on the Ten Commandments with a quibble here or there. Peter Kropotkin argued:

    https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/kropotkin/anmorality/

    that morality was grounded in natural law, and that any society, unless dysfunctional (and thus, likely to be displaced by others) will settle on rules based upon these fundamental truths. This doesn’t require that the rules be handed down by authority reinforced by coercion, but simply because they’ve been found to work over generations.

  3. 10 Cents10 Cents says:
    6 Oct 2017 at 09:57

    I agree that people know what is right over different society. Why do humans have this compared to animals?

    I was lazy and didn’t explain what I meant. Comparing the deity to Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or the Spaghetti Monster, it makes a false equivalence in my opinion. Few people get inspired by those as compared to religion. I feel people who make these comparisons then go to an assumption that God should be like Santa Claus or never allow bad things to happen therefore if bad things happen this proves “Santa Claus” doesn’t exist. It reminds me of the Epicurus’ trilemma.

    My concern is how does society fight against science that made something like eugenics seem good. Or killing millions for the good of society as they did under Communism. With the right PowerPoint you can get people to do anything. (I concede people have done/will do terrible things because of religion.)

  4. 10 Cents10 Cents says:
    8 Oct 2017 at 10:05

    John, have you heard of the “Cut Flower” way of looking at the West? Many of what is happening now is okay because they are in the “cut flower” stage. They came to bloom under something that now they are separated from. They still look good but do not have the ability to flower again. Slowly they will wither and die.

    George Orwell is amazing in his ability to see things coming. They would attack the language with News Speak. They would have their Two Minutes of Hate. Big Brother would “help” people.

    What I also find interesting is the need to have religion in some form. In Russia they set up statues of Lenin and Stalin. The Little Red Book became a bible to be read with the Communist Manifesto. Capitalists or others became spawn of devil. (Hey, I thought the devil was Red so good. Hell does seem to be a workers paradise where everyone has a job, right?)

    • John Walker says:
      9 Oct 2017 at 08:16

      >> John, have you heard of the “Cut Flower” way of looking at the West?

      Yes. My wife, as a bioarchæologist, calls us “hothouse flowers”—unable to flourish except in the unnatural, vaccinated, disease-free environment to which we’re accustomed. Whatever: “Sub Umbra Floreo”. Works for me.

      I’m not sure it’s religion, but it seems that most people need to believe in something. Some call it religion, others a political philosophy, and still others radical atheism. Me, I believe in “Dunno”.

      • 10 Cents10 Cents says:
        9 Oct 2017 at 13:03

        John, I think if you look at those beliefs closely they have a lot in common. They have a “salvation” story. They have a body of “sins”. They have a “priesthood”. They have their “scriptures”. They have statues or images to worship.

        How does one believe in “Dunno”? One always has to believe in a positive. Are you more “I am open-minded.” or “I don’t think it is possible to know.”?

  5. 10 Cents10 Cents says:
    9 Oct 2017 at 13:08

    Where is the balance point between having a civil society and a “hothouse”? How much protection is good and how much is too much?

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